What to Do When You’re STUCK

In this episode, we tackle the common issue of getting stuck during the writing process. Joined by award-winning author Rene Gutteridge, we explore practical strategies to overcome creative roadblocks in both fiction and nonfiction writing. Rene shares her insights on managing emotional and logical aspects of writing, the importance of stepping back, and engaging with writing communities for support. Whether you’re a seasoned writer or just starting out, this discussion offers valuable advice to help you maintain your writing momentum.

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• [00:00] Introduction: Overcoming Writer’s Block
• [00:13] Meet Rene Gutteridge: Award-Winning Author
• [00:42] The Struggles of Writing: Getting Stuck
• [02:31] Applying Logic Over Emotion
• [05:52] Practical Tips for Fiction Writers
• [16:26] The Importance of Community and Support
• [22:13] Conclusion: Keep Writing, Don’t Doubt Yourself

LINKS:

• Liz Wilcox’s Email Marketing Membership at http://wmdeal.com/liz
• Get your FREE Move the Needle goal-setting for authors ebook at https://www.writingmomentum.com
• Write with us! Join our writing membership and get your book DONE! https://wmdeal.com/wmmrene

episode 137 transcription:

[00:00:00] Gena: What do you do when you're stuck? 

[[00:00:02] Christopher: Hey, we can help with that.

[00:00:07] Christopher: Hey, Gena, what do you do when you're stuck? 

[[00:00:10] Gena: I turn to my good friend, Rene Gutteridge. 

[00:00:13] Christopher: Oh, Rene's here with us. Hey, welcome Rene.

[[00:00:16] Rene: Hello. 

[00:00:17] Christopher: This is, we love having Rene on the podcast. She's our award winning author friend and just so smart about all things, especially with like fiction development. With books and that sort of thing.

[[00:00:30] Gena: Screen writing. 

[[00:00:31] Christopher: I always feel like I learn something when we talk with Rene. 

[[00:00:36] Gena: Absolutely.

[00:00:37] Rene: Thanks guys, I've got you fooled.

[00:00:42] Christopher: So today we're talking about getting stuck. Have you ever, have you ever been stuck before when you're writing a book? Or does it just like naturally flow out? 

[00:00:52] Gena: Or a screenplay. Rene's done it all. She's done fiction, nonfiction, screenplays. 

[00:00:56] Christopher: We're really building you up now.

[00:00:58] Christopher: So you're going to, you know. [[00:01:00] 

[[00:01:02] Rene: Well, I could create the legend and say, no, it all flows out from my genius. Or I could tell the truth and say nearly every project has a struggle in it, at least, multiple, usually. 

[00:01:17] Christopher: We all get stuck sometimes when we're doing that. And I always find like when I'm first get, when I first start working on a project, it almost flows really easy at the very beginning.

[00:01:25] Christopher: Cause I'm excited about it. And then I start to get to the tough part, right? The part that you maybe haven't thought all the way through or whatever it is. Yeah. In the middle. And then I just find myself going, Oh, why did I take on this project? Right. Why did I start this? 

[[00:01:41] Gena: Why am I doing this to myself?

[00:01:42] Rene: Well, you guys don't have the fourth step where you, you question every choice you've made in life.

[00:01:50] Rene: You don't have that fourth part. Okay. Me neither. Nevermind. 

[00:01:57] Christopher: Yeah, that's true. I mean, it really can, it can, it can throw you [00:02:00] for a lot, especially if you, especially if it's your own project, I think, right? Because you really, you're believing in it. You're going, okay, I am. sold out to this. I'm so excited to sit down and write this.

[00:02:11] Christopher: And you spent a lot of time thinking about it, starting to write it. And then you just find yourself stopping cold. Is it, what is it Rene? Is it just doubt or is it that the project's no good? And what, what, what should you do at that point? Like what, what, what's, what's your go to thought where you, where do you go when you hit that wall?

[00:02:31] Rene: Well, where I used to go was to emotion. Um, Where I would, you know, go do the whole spiral thing. Um, and, um, I've learned over, over 20 years of doing this that I'm, I was going to have a complete nervous breakdown if I felt like this every time I started a project, right? So I only have so many emotions [[00:03:00] to give in my day.

[00:03:02] Rene: And I also watched some more experienced writers through the years and kind of what they did. And I noticed that they often applied logic before emotion. Um, and when I sort of switched towards that, then I found myself, you know, I might be frustrated, but I'm not emotionally wiped, um, and I certainly never wanted to give into doubt of myself.

[00:03:34] Rene: Um, so. I've, I've done a little bit better on that through the last part of my writing career. 

[00:03:42] Christopher: Well, now, now you're speaking my language. I like the whole finding the logical explanation for this. What does that mean? Like in real, in real life, what does that mean? You're, you're writing, you're writing your story, your script, you're at the end of, let's say, act [00:04:00] one, and you're going, okay, now I just don't know what to do next.

[[00:04:04] Christopher: So logically, how do you approach that then? 

[00:04:08] Rene: Yeah, so you, you have to sort of step back from your own project as the writer and come in with a different hat on. Um, and there's a thousand different reasons that it may be, you may be coming to a stop. Like, you could just be emotionally tired. You could just be physically tired.

[00:04:29] Rene: You, you know, there's, but, but it's, It's taking the time to step back and analyzing where you are, you know, if you, if you're feeling emotionally or physically tired. You know, it's probably like, I try not to write at 4 or 5 or 6 PM in the evening, because by that point, my brain is not functioning well, and it's just frustrating.

[[00:04:54] Rene: Um, and so, but, you know, I also, so I take into [[00:05:00] those accounts, um, and then, um. I take into, uh, personal problems, like, I kind of take inventory, like, is this a really hard season? You know, when, um, I had, when both my parents died last year, um, that was not the high creative time, you know, to start doubting my writing.

[00:05:21] Rene: I mean, I couldn't get. You know, much out on the page and I just had to give myself that break, but if every, if you're like, I'm feeling good, I have my coffee and, you know, I'm ready to roll and life is good and, and I'm just stuck, then that might be the time to start analyzing components of the work that you're doing. 

[[00:05:45] Christopher: Components like what?

[00:05:48] Rene: Well, it depends on what you're working on. So, if it's fiction, for example, I would start analyzing, um, story, uh, elements that [00:06:00] I know must be in place to make Act 1, Act 2, you know, Act 3 work, um. As I'd mentioned to you guys before, I try to write, I didn't used to do this. Um, I've gotten smarter about how I write 90, 000 word books now.

[00:06:17] Rene: Um, but I've learned to write more in sections, rather than trying to write the whole book and then going back and trying to fix everything. Um, so, for example, I. Write Act 1 and make sure that it's working now. It doesn't mean that I'm not going to go back and change something later to make it work better.

[00:06:38] Rene: Um, but I get, you know, so, for example, in Act 1, I want to make sure I'm setting up the ordinary world. Well, I'm setting up who the character is. Well, what the character wants in life. Well, so then once I have all of that, you know, if I'm writing a first, if I'm writing act one and it's weak and I don't really have an established [00:07:00] character and I don't really have an ordinary world, then when I create my inciting incident that leads into act two, it may feel like it's stagnant or not interesting or whatever.

[00:07:11] Rene: And so, you know, if I, if I'm writing along and I come to that inciting incident. And I say, man, this doesn't have the impact. It doesn't feel as dramatic as I want it to. Then I might stop and go, but maybe my ordinary world isn't strong because this is supposed to flip the ordinary world upside down. So how do I make that stronger?

[[00:07:34] Rene: So this inciting incident seems bigger. 

[00:07:38] Christopher: So really you're having to go back to training that you've had in order to make sure you hit those points. That's what, is that, maybe that's what you mean by the logic, hitting it with the logic and going, okay, I'm going to go back to those basics that I've learned that I know need to be in this story and just ask myself [[00:08:00] one by one and go down the checklist, right?

[00:08:02] Christopher: Did I do this? Did I do that? Did I, did I hit this point? Did I hit that point? Did I make the story structure work to know if, if it's any of those things? Because if it's one of those things, then you kind of know what to do next, right? Fix that point. You say, Oh, I left out the inciting incident. That might be important.

[00:08:20] Christopher: Right? So you, so then you go ahead and you make sure that that's included. 

[00:08:24] Gena: I think you can also sense it when you're going. I, my process is that if I'm writing something and I've been working on it and working on it, and I'm feeling like I've worked on it so much, I sometimes will need to step away from that project, not for a long time, but for.

[00:08:42] Gena: Even just a day to come back with fresh eyes to see it, because sometimes if I've worked on it so much, I get to the place where I can't tell if it's good or not. I can't tell if it's hitting anything. I've had too many edits going through my mind. So I have to [[00:09:00] take about a day and come back with fresh eyes.

[00:09:04] Gena: And it's usually with those fresh eyes that I can zero in on what's going on. not happening. I can, I, I can start noticing when, um, when it's just not working, when something's not working. But I will say that if I, if I can't zero in on it, but I, but there's just something that's saying this is not quite right.

[00:09:26] Gena: I've checked my checklist, but I, it's like, I need this. Whether it's fiction or nonfiction, that's when I reach for outside help. I reach for an outside opinion. I've reached out to Rene as a coach. I've gone to you to say, read this and what do you, what do you think? Where can I make it better? 

[00:09:45] Christopher: And I've always been like, you can't make it better, Gena.

[00:09:48] Christopher: It's perfect as it is. 

[00:09:50] Gena: And that's why I talked to Rene.

[00:09:51] Rene: That's a good point though, Gena. I mean, because. You and I have talked about the subconscious working in the background, [00:10:00] uh, solving problems and it does take stepping away for a little bit. Um, and, and usually when I'm realizing I've got some sort of problem, um, I, unless I can identify it quickly.

[00:10:15] Rene: It does take a stepping away. I mean, it's almost always as I'm falling asleep that night that it dawns on me, or I'm in the shower the next morning and it hits me, you know, it's all those times when your brain is more relaxed, um, and not so frenetic about it all that it You, you give your brain like that permission to sort of play and figure out what needs to be done.

[00:10:40] Christopher: You know, I'm having flashbacks to one of the, um, middle grade novels that I wrote that I was doing other projects while I was writing on it. And so I'd have to keep stopping before I could move, move forward. And I remember doing that where I would come back a day or two later to start working on it again, and I couldn't just start where I [00:11:00] left off because so many other things had happened that my mind was full of all those things and I remember starting in the morning knowing that I was going to work on this project and I would start on page one and I would just start reading and I would spend a couple hours every time I went back to that novel rereading the novel up to the point where I had stopped and so but by doing it but usually by the time I got to the point where I'd stopped I was excited because I was so much into my own story, you know, because we tend to think our own stuff is great when we're working on it and hopefully it is.

[00:11:34] Christopher: But I was so into it that when I got to that point where it stopped, then I could just sit down and start writing. Cause I was like, okay, I know what needs to happen next. And I would just start jumping right into it. And so maybe that's sometimes what it needs is just the, I'm going to take a little bit of a break and go back and start at the beginning, read it.

[00:11:52] Christopher: And, yeah. You know, and, and I think you see the holes in the story then too, right? Because you're seeing it with fresh eyes. 

[00:11:59] Gena: But I think there [00:12:00] can be some, uh, questions that we can ask ourselves, like with, Rene and I were talking beforehand, um, and I'm working on a, on a non fiction project right now, and I, I'm in this place, I'm in this place where one of my chapters, I'm reading it, and I'm getting bored.

[00:12:20] Gena: When I'm getting bored. Or I feel like I'm repeating myself. I, I know, I, I know that one, taking a break, coming down, you know, doing this podcast recording, I know when I go back to it, I know I'm going to, I had already started reworking it, re, uh, editing it and moving things around and pulling things together because I found, uh, you know, in this particular instance, I'm finding, um, that I'm repeating myself, that I'm coming back, um, making some points and then kind of repeating it again.

[00:12:57] Gena: And as I was reading it, I thought I need to pull this [00:13:00] section. I need to rearrange these sections, pull my like sections together, and then really get it down to the core Message that I've got there in, so that I'm not rambling. 

[[00:13:14] Rene: Mm hmm. 

[00:13:15] Gena: You know not not repeating myself and I and I know I'm not the only person that does that because I know I've talked to other writers that'll say, I, I knew a writer one time who would say, I really have trouble with conclusions.

[[00:13:29] Gena: So I ended up writing three of them. The end of something. And they said, I got three conclusions at the end of a chapter or at the end of an article. And, uh, and I get that, you know, and so then it comes back to, okay, taking a step back, getting fresh eyes and then pulling it together and making it tighter.

[[00:13:50] Gena: So. 

[00:13:51] Christopher: It's like that movie Clue, right? Where they recorded five or six different endings and then in theaters they showed a different one depending on what theater you went to. It's kind of like that. You think you [[00:14:00] have a book with all these different endings and you can figure out which one you want to go in.

[[00:14:03] Gena: And choose your own adventure. 

[[00:14:04] Christopher: I kind of like that. 

[00:14:07] Gena: Choose your own adventure in your book. Oh, that's funny. So yeah, so what kind of questions should we be looking for on a fiction standpoint? What kind of questions? Would we ask ourselves, we would start looking at character and conflict and what would you guys say?

[00:14:27] Rene: Well, I took a similar approach to Chris and, and. sort of what I was talking about with working in sections. So, um, you know, I would reread two or three chapters, you know, until I would get to, to, you know, about six, seven, eight chapters in, and I would spend my whole time reading instead of, and so then I'd just back up a couple of, but when you do that, you know, if you let yourself write freely and then go back and give another eye to it.

[00:14:59] Rene: Um, [00:15:00] that's helpful. I think a lot of people think they have to nail the writing style as well, you know, when they're still just trying to get the plot down. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's, it, it depends on where you are in the book, what kinds of questions you need to ask. Um, one of the things that I found in my writing and a lot of people's writing in novels is they, um, They rarely have enough conflict, um, and often times it's the story driving the conflict and making the character react to conflict rather than making the character make choices that causes conflict or overcomes conflict. So, you know, there's, it takes, first of all, a lot of study of the craft. You know, a lot of people find they've gotten lost in a novel, but it's because they've actually not learned. What goes in that [[00:16:00] too, you know, or whatever.

[[00:16:01] Rene: And so, um, I mean, I have still have, um, I have the John, uh, Truby book over here on my desk, you know, just to remind myself, inform myself, um, you know, what, what could be missing here, um, and every element that you learn, you make a better book when you have included it. So.

[00:16:26] Christopher: That that's really good. You know, that's a lot of the reason we started this writing momentum membership we did. Is because we wanted to have a place where people could come in and they could say, look, I want to learn about the craft. I want to make sure that I hone my skills, know what the latest things are. And so we have. We have hundreds of hours of video in there, hundreds of hours of these podcasts, hundreds of hours of what we call writing boosts.

[00:16:47] Christopher: We have trainers that will help give critiques and give thoughts on your writing, and it's a great way that you can jump in with an online community that's always there, and [00:17:00] start asking questions and, and, and build that community, get yourself excited about your project again, and also just see, okay, where might this not be working and what can I do to find the next step? So yeah. Hey, if you want to find out about that, go to writingmomentum. com and you'll see a link right there on the front page. But so Rene, is it the same for nonfiction books? 

[00:17:22] Rene: It's a definitely a different process. I mean, it is the same to apply logic. Same principles, but you're already sort of writing from a logical mind anyway, in nonfiction, um, you know, in fiction, I mean, we, we've thrown logic out the window and we are just playing and making things up and everything, you know, so we almost forget we have the left side of the brain in the middle of it.

[00:17:47] Rene: Um, in nonfiction, you're already applying some sort of logical structure into what you're doing. Um, I think it. always helps with nonfiction. Uh, I mean, I [00:18:00] think it's essential that you can't really be a seat of the pants writer in nonfiction. You, you have to have your blueprint, your plan. Um, and, and that I would say, I mean, I encourage it in fiction as well, but in nonfiction, I really encourage that to be so well thought out before you even start writing. What's going in? Why is it going in? You know, those are the what and the why of nonfiction. It's really important. Why am I telling this story right here? How does it support the theme of this chapter and the theme of the book? You know, and other questions that you, you know, depending on what kind of trouble you're, you're running into.

[00:18:46] Rene: As Gena mentioned, when she feels like she's suddenly rambling in chapter. You know, what we start rambling because we don't really know where we're going. You know, we're, we're kind of like, I'm [00:19:00] trying to get to this point over here, and it's a long ways away, and I can't see the road. And so just backing that up and going, Okay, I'm telling the story.

[[00:19:10] Rene: Why am I telling the story? What part of the story is? supporting this chapter. Those kinds of questions can help. 

[00:19:19] Christopher: Yeah. And in particular, what's the purpose of this chapter, right? Why, why does this chapter have to be in the book? And am I getting that point across by the end of the chapter, especially if it's like a teaching nonfiction book, you want to make sure that each chapter that's part of that structure, what, why is it in there?

[[00:19:36] Christopher: And am I getting that point across? 

[00:19:38] Gena: And is it necessary? Is it necessary? I mean, there's been times when I. when I'm writing a nonfiction book that I will get to the place where I'm thinking, who cares? Like, you get to the place where it's like, why, who cares about this section here? And does it matter? And so then I either need to work [00:20:00] on it and rework it so that it does matter, or I need to take it out and see if there's, it makes a difference.

[00:20:08] Gena: And if I take it out, um, um, because I don't usually delete it. That's why I have a whole, I have a whole, um, another document that's called the deleted files for that project that I hold on to because, you know, sometimes the things that I delete are things that I love. You know, it's a, it's a paragraph.

[00:20:32] Gena: It's a couple of paragraphs or a whole section. But then when I really step back and think, does it really feed into the message that I'm trying to convey? Is it strong enough? Or maybe something else is stronger than it might need to go over there. And I think in my 20 years of doing this, I've probably only gone back and accessed that maybe one time.

[00:20:59] Gena: [00:21:00] Usually when I finally make the decision of it has to go in the deleted file, I rarely will go back to it because usually by that time I've already asked all these questions. I've already asked so many questions that I'm like okay yeah this really and I've and I've highlighted it and read around it and I've checked everything out and I'm like yeah it doesn't really matter it doesn't like it doesn't it's not adding to the overall message so Yeah.

[00:21:29] Christopher: Yeah, and sometimes I think you've got to also help the reader understand why they need to care about a particular point. Like if it's a teaching book and you'll say I've got ten things I'm teaching in this book and you're at point number five and you're like, who cares, right? And you realize, okay, but this is an important point.

[00:21:47] Christopher: I've got to help The reader understand why this is important so that you can ignite that fire in them to them to go, Oh, I, I now see, I need to know about this. What's the answer? [[00:22:00] And then when you present the answer, it means something. 

[[00:22:02] Gena: It means something. I would agree with that. 

[00:22:03] Rene: That's good.

[00:22:07] Christopher: Well, you know what? I don't have any more doubts about my writing and I am ready to just jump into things now. 

[00:22:13] Rene: Well, let's let's cover doubt real quick because that is I think the one thing we want to keep from happening is when you hit that wall doubting, you know, whether you should write this book, uh, whether you're doing, you know, you're just writing in vain, whether you have the talent to pull it off, you know, all of those, those, um, book killers can creep in and, uh, they really can.

[[00:22:48] Rene: I, I wonder how many great books have been derailed by, you know, somebody hitting a wall and then just walking away from the whole book. What, what have we not gotten to read? [[00:23:00] 

[[00:23:00] Rene: So many. 

[00:23:01] Rene: Yeah, there's so many and so, you know, my, my thing is I, I most likely won't walk. I don't think I've for many, many, many years have I abandoned the project completely? Um, I will though. I give myself permission to abandon it. If after all the analysis. I realize, oh, this, this whole thing isn't, you know, or I don't like this as much as I thought I did. You know, I, I don't know if I want to spend 90, 000, uh, words with this character, whatever, you know, I'll abandon it, but I don't want to abandon it out of self doubt.

[00:23:39] Rene: I want to abandon it because I've given it some thought. 

[00:23:44] Christopher: That's really good. Hey, if you're, if you're listening to this and you're thinking, you know, I got a project that, I kind of started doubting myself on and I put it in a drawer. I encourage you to open up that document again and give it, start giving it a read and see if the [00:24:00] ignites that fire within you again, that makes you think, Hey, this might have this, this, this might have some legs and, and maybe, maybe it's time to resurrect that project because, um, uh, yeah, we don't, we don't want those, those projects that were so meaningful to us sometimes when we started just to die and go away.

[00:24:18] Gena: I think that's also a valid and important reason to be part of the writing community. I think being part of the writing community, if you're trying to do it all on your own, and we always say that writing is not a solitary venture, and I think that is so true because if you're trying to do this on your own without any support or anyone who Is further along in the process or anyone who understands what you're trying to do Then it's it would be really easy for those doubts to get in and just kill 

[[00:24:54] Christopher: 100% 

[[00:24:55] Gena: your books so that is another reason why the writing momentum [[00:25:00] membership why we have this membership why we have that community is to just support people and help people through no matter where they are.

[00:25:08] Gena: And we have people in our, in our membership who are brand new writers. We have some that are. More experienced and are farther along on the on the path. So it's it's for everyone. 

[00:25:19] Christopher: Yeah, so come join Rene, join Gena, join myself and we'll all write together. 

[00:25:24] Gena: That's right. 

[00:25:25] Christopher: Well Rene I'm so glad you got to join us today.

[[00:25:27] Christopher: This has been fun. 

[[00:25:28] Rene: Oh, yeah. I always love hanging out with you guys and talking shop

[[00:25:35] Christopher: All right, well until next time, we are going to, uh, sign off for this week. This is a good discussion. 

[[00:25:41] Gena: It is. 

[00:25:41] Christopher: It's always a good discussion. And, uh, uh, remember, you are not in this alone. We want to work on our writing, as Gena said, not as a solitary venture, but together. Because together 

[[00:25:52] Gena: We have writing momentum.

[[00:25:55] Christopher: Bye bye.